Dr. Mary Talley Bowden on how vaccines got politicized

Full Transcript

So, thank you for coming. Okay, here’s my question to you. You were one of the people who was right about COVID—certainly more right than the U.S. public health authorities and the global public health authorities. I’m just going to summarize in two sentences what I think your position was. You’re a physician in private practice in Texas, and you’re vaccinated—by the—no, wait, you’re not vaccinated. God bless you. At first, you had no real reason to think that everything was completely backward. But then you treated COVID patients—thousands, I think—and you started to realize that the therapies the U.S. government was recommending weren’t working, that the vaccines weren’t working as advertised at all. You started saying something about it and offering badly needed alternatives in the middle of this moment. And then you were attacked—really attacked. Your livelihood and your professional credentials were attacked. Time passes—four years now—and it becomes really clear that, once again, you were more right than the U.S. public health authorities. I think that’s just demonstrable. I think the science proves it.

So here’s my question after a long preamble: Have you been rewarded for it? Has the AMA given you the Physician of the Year award? No, I’m serious. Has anybody said, “We were wrong in attacking you, and you deserve credit for your foresight and bravery”?

No. I mean, I’m still fighting to keep my license. The Texas Medical Board is still coming after me for something that happened. Right now, you’re fighting? Oh yeah, oh yeah. I have a hearing coming up at the end of April. I was trying to save somebody’s life—a sheriff’s deputy. This is a man who served for 29 years, trying to protect and save the public, a father of six. He contracted COVID in the fall of 2021, during the third and largest surge of the pandemic. This was following the rollout of the COVID shots—eight months after—and they clearly weren’t working. This man got sick. He tried to get ivermectin but couldn’t find a doctor willing to prescribe it. He ended up in the hospital and went downhill, like so many people did. His wife said the hospital was talking about hospice; they were giving up. They said, “We’ve tried everything.”

How old was this man? He was in his late fifties, early sixties—not elderly. He was a big guy but had no comorbidities, no other medical problems. We saw this with so many people, though. If you didn’t get early treatment, the second week of illness, people would start getting really bad. This massive inflammatory response would kick in—almost always on day eight. It was very weird, very predictable. Primary care doctors just shut their doors to these people. They said, “Oh, this is just a virus. We’ll let it run its course, and then go to the emergency room if you can’t breathe.”

Can I ask you a question? Why would primary care physicians, whose duty it is to treat patients—and they must have known by this point that day eight was the critical day—why would they not treat these people? Because there’s a dogma we’re taught in medical school and in our training that you don’t treat a virus; you let it run its course. There’s this big fear about antibiotic resistance, so they don’t want people overprescribing antibiotics. The assumption is, if somebody comes to you with an upper respiratory tract infection in the first three, four, or five days and they don’t test positive for strep, you basically say, “Oh, you’ve got a virus. We’ll just wait and see what happens.” Well, that was catastrophic. I mean, that was really—and I learned so much.

I had that mindset prior to the pandemic, but it just didn’t sit well with me when people were coming in and really struggling, and I was doing nothing. Initially, I tried hydroxychloroquine. But as soon as President Trump came out and said how great it was, the Texas State Board of Pharmacy literally shut it down—they prohibited doctors from prescribing hydroxychloroquine. So I put it on the back burner and did my best. I did breathing treatments, steroids, antibiotics for secondary infections. But initially, I didn’t have a lot of demand for people coming in needing treatment. I was doing a lot of testing, and that sort of got me recognized in town because I had a saliva test that didn’t require a swab up the nose, and I was able to get results back very quickly. You might remember, initially, LabCorp was the only lab in the country that had the test, and they became inundated—it was taking two weeks to get test results back. So we had a saliva test; people could just sit in their car, spit in a cup, and we’d have the results back the next day. That’s where it all started.

Then monoclonal antibodies came about, and those worked great. I could get as many doses as I wanted—I’d contact the manufacturer and say, “I need 200 doses at my doorstep,” and they’d be there the next day. They worked wonderfully; people turned around very quickly. But what happened is—during that big surge when Jason Jones, the sheriff’s deputy, got sick—he couldn’t get monoclonal antibodies or ivermectin. When in 2021 was that, do you remember? The summer of 2021.

—

### The Origin of the Government’s Propaganda Campaign

Well, let’s start in the spring of 2021, following the rollout of the COVID shots. The government was upset because people weren’t buying it—there was very low uptake, very low interest, and suspicion about these shots. So in March, they started their PR campaign. The FDA put something on their website about how you can’t use ivermectin for COVID. Biden doled out $11.5 billion to groups around the country—starting with 275, then up to 17,000 influencers, church groups, sports leagues, all sorts of people—just funneling out taxpayer money to go after doctors like myself who were “spreading misinformation” and to push people to get these COVID shots. That happened in the spring.

Houston Methodist Hospital, where I had privileges, was the first hospital in the country to mandate the shots—April 1st, 2021, the exact day Biden announced the COVID-19 Community Corps, that multi-billion-dollar propaganda effort. I think it was very purposeful. I think the mandates started in Houston for a reason. They knew if they could get away with mandates in Texas, they could get away with them anywhere. Where was your governor in this? He was a little slow to act. You’re a Republican governor, right? Yeah, he was on board with Methodist. In fact, I have the CEO of Methodist, Dr. Mark Boone, on camera saying that Governor Abbott wanted them to “get a shot in every arm,” according to the CEO. But he did come through eventually. This was early on.

That summer, we started having all these breakthrough cases. I was seeing it because I was testing people. I started tracking people by their vaccination status and saw that the vaccinated outnumbered the unvaccinated—and they were just as sick, if not sicker. That brought me to the attention of Houston Methodist. Are these your patients you’re talking about? People who were coming to my office to get tested. Why wasn’t every doctor doing this? Well, we can get to that. I’m independent, so it allowed me to do things other doctors couldn’t. I was actually collaborating with Methodist, sharing my data with them because I saw so much COVID for a few years. We were trying to get the data published, so we had a good relationship. I reached out and said, “Hey, are you seeing what I’m seeing—all these breakthrough cases?” At the same time, I had all these people coming to me, very distraught about the mandates. We were ahead of the curve—this was before the rest of the country mandated shots. In Houston, if you worked at Houston Methodist—they employ about 30,000 people—people were very upset about these mandates. I saw they weren’t working. At that time, I wasn’t seeing injuries yet; I was just very vocal against the mandates.

In late August of 2021, the FDA put out the infamous horse tweet—you know, the attractive healthcare worker nuzzling a horse, saying, “Seriously, y’all, you’re not a horse, you’re not a cow, stop it.” That tweet went viral. That’s when Joe Rogan got smeared for taking ivermectin. Right after that, Biden mandated the shots and they took away monoclonal antibodies. It was all very orchestrated. But monoclonal antibodies—I’ve never heard anybody say they didn’t work. Right, but if you have monoclonal antibodies available as an option, people are going to choose that rather than get the shot. That’s why, in my opinion, they took them away. They worked great. It was—so this is like the most evil thing that’s ever happened in the United States? Yeah, in my opinion, definitely.

I’m sorry to keep interjecting—it’s just, even though I lived through this, it’s stunning to hear it recounted as crisply as you are recounting it. So, they take away monoclonal antibodies, they mandate the shot, you’re sharing your data with the hospital where you have privileges—what are they saying? Their response was one sentence: “Well, we think the shots are there to lessen the severity.” Interestingly enough, they’ve never shared their data—their hospital data. Being the first in the country to mandate the shots, they’re sitting on an enormous amount of data. If the shots had been effective in preventing transmission or lowering severity, they would have shared that—they’d be screaming it from the rooftops if it fit their agenda. But they’ve been very quiet about it.

So now I had all these patients coming to me, very distraught. One patient told me her urologist at Houston Methodist called her and said, “You’re going to need to find a new urologist if you don’t get the COVID shot.” She had a history of bladder cancer, so she was very upset and called me to try to find a new doctor. The urologist said, “I won’t treat you”? Well, he said the department was having discussions about not treating unvaccinated patients. He didn’t say definitely. The Texas Health Department? No, this was at Houston Methodist Hospital—the Department of Urology. That’s what he told this patient. Doesn’t he have a moral obligation to treat his patients? Yeah, well, we saw all sorts of moral issues during the pandemic—crimes, really.

On the exact same day, I got a notice from a surgery center where I operate that I’d have to get the COVID shot to continue operating. Then, on the same day, I got a notice from the hospital where I was trying to help the sheriff’s deputy. They had a court order to give me emergency temporary privileges so I could give him ivermectin. The wife sued—it was a last-ditch effort to let a dying man try ivermectin. This was the sheriff’s deputy, father of six. I testified, Senator Bob Hall testified, and we won. The court ordered them to give me emergency temporary privileges. I was to either personally give the ivermectin or have a nurse do it because they thought it was too dangerous for one of their own staff to treat a patient with ivermectin—which is insane. Anyway, I got a notice that they were going to deny my privileges, even though I’ve never been sued for malpractice and have a spotless record. They made me get letters of recommendation and submit my surgical case logs. They fought tooth and nail to make the whole process as difficult as possible. The lawyers had to go back to the judge and fight with them just to get me privileges. At that time, there was a shortage—they needed doctors to work in the hospitals. Under other circumstances, if I had just shown up and said, “Hey, I want to help out in the ICU,” they would have granted me privileges the same day—no letters of recommendation or surgical logs required.

Can I just ask—were you pretty confident this man was going to die without treatment? No, that’s interesting. The lawyers on this case, Ralph Lorigo and Beth Parlato, did 189 cases around the country—similar situations where a spouse sued the hospital to try to get their loved one ivermectin in a last-ditch effort to save their lives. In half of those cases, they won. In the cases where they won, all but three patients died. In the cases where they lost, all the patients died. It’s really amazing. Apparently, the judges’ political party matched the outcome of the trial—Republican judges ruled in favor of the plaintiffs, and Democrat judges ruled against them. You’re making my heart beat fast hearing this. So what happened in this specific case?

There was a lot of back and forth—it was very confusing and happening very quickly, with his life on the line. The lawyers told me, “You have the green light, we’re good to go, everything’s cleared.” So I sent the nurse to the hospital. She was greeted by the police and the hospital administrator and turned away. He was never allowed to get the ivermectin. They appealed and managed to get a stay on the order, but on appeal, they lost. Luckily, the wife was able to go into the hospital every day, which was unusual—most spouses didn’t get to do that. This was at Texas Health Huguley Hospital in Fort Worth. She applied ivermectin to him topically every day without the hospital knowing. The hospital tied up his feeding tube because they didn’t want her sneaking anything in—they put towels and rubber bands around it so nothing could be snuck in. These people are evil. They fought tooth and nail to keep him from just trying a very safe medication, which I believe should be over-the-counter. Then they turned me into the medical board over it, and I’m still fighting those charges.

The patient did survive, but he spent six months in the hospital. He lost half his body weight, never made a full recovery, and unfortunately, he did pass away. That’s very upsetting to hear. That’s a very upsetting story. So the charges against you—boy, I thought I was done being upset by COVID, but you just brought me back. It’s such a stain on this country, a stain on the medical profession—not just that people didn’t storm the hospitals. Your father, your husband, your children dying alone—you should have showed up with guns and said, “Get out of my way, he’s my loved one, and I’m going to be with him when he dies.” Exactly. People should have done that, and I hope they will next time.

—

### How the Medical Establishment Tried to Destroy Dr. Bowden

So your crime is recommending a therapy for COVID? That’s your crime, or am I missing something? Well, the technicality is that I didn’t have hospital privileges when I sent the nurse to the hospital. But because this was a legal dispute—and she never got in—I was following the guidance of the lawyers. So your nurse made it to the threshold of a hospital, and therefore you should lose your medical license? No. Is that what I’m hearing? Well, I don’t think they’re trying to take my license—I think they just want to fine me and mark my record. I could have settled a long time ago. They have something called an informal settlement conference—it’s behind closed doors, no witnesses, and you don’t really get to interact much. They offered to make it go away if I paid them $5,000, took eight hours of continuing medical education (CME), and retook the jurisprudence exam. All doctors in Texas have to take a medical-legal exam, which I’ve already taken and passed, but they wanted me to take it again. I just said, “No, I’m not caving to this.”

Unfortunately, it’s been three and a half years—there have been multiple continuances. They haven’t been able to find an expert witness to testify against me. The first one got sick with cancer. The second one, I think, just chickened out—I don’t know. The third witness, it turns out, was the former medical director of the Texas Medical Board. For the last 12 years, he’s been working for Planned Parenthood. We found that out—what? Yeah. Wait, what? I’m so sorry, now I’m tuning in with greater intensity. What’s his job—his day job when he’s not doing this? He’s a lab director for Planned Parenthood. What’s a lab director at Planned Parenthood? I don’t know—fetal tissue to vaccine companies, probably. And he’s on the medical board? He was the medical director of the medical board. And he works at Planned Parenthood? Exactly, yeah. This is not Vermont—this is Texas! Exactly. Texas is not what people think. No, I’ve figured that out.

Man, I didn’t expect to be left speechless in the first 10 minutes. Only three things are absolutely certain in this life, and you know two of them: first is death, second is taxes, and the third, unfortunately, is getting ripped off by your cell phone company. If you’re a Verizon, AT&T, or T-Mobile customer, you know exactly what we’re talking about. But there is an option—you can save a ton every month by switching to the service we use: PureTalk. PureTalk is an earnest friend of the show, and they’re the answer. If you become a customer, you get unlimited text, talk, and five gigs of data—which is enough for most people—on the country’s most dependable 5G network, and here’s the punchline: it costs $25 a month. The average family of four saves over $1,000 a year when they switch to PureTalk—$1,000 a year! Plus, it’s great service. Their customer service team is based in the United States. You can switch hassle-free in as little as 10 minutes and keep your phone and number. To find out more, go to puretalk.com/tucker to make the switch, and you’ll save an additional 50% off your first month. PureTalk—wireless by Americans, for Americans.

So, take yourself out of this. Imagine a med school classmate is going through what you’re going through. Do you see any other side to the argument—any potentially legitimate justification for hounding you for four years? The medical board’s job is to protect the public from dangerous doctors. It’s true—you get a monthly bulletin, and you know… Like the ones who give your kids amphetamines for ADHD? Well, yeah. The ones who hook your wife on benzodiazepines because she has panic attacks—those doctors? Right, right. Well, no—not those doctors, different doctors. Okay. We get a monthly email blasting all the crimes doctors have done, and it’s pretty bad—sex offenders, you know. I’m not surprised even a little bit. That’s their role. I don’t think I’m dangerous.

—

### How Much Money Was Made From the Pandemic?

I was trying to save a life. I stepped on the toes of a hospital—that was my crime—a multi-billion-dollar hospital, Advent Hospital. That’s what happened with Methodist, too—I stepped on their toes, and they weren’t going to have that. At any point during this, could you just call the CEO or the medical director of the hospital and say, “This is really crazy. I’m not profiting from this—there’s no profit margin in ivermectin, right? I just think this therapy works. I’ve seen it, I’m going to try to help—why don’t you back off?” At the time this was going down, it was a legal battle. I felt like I couldn’t step outside what the lawyers were telling me to do.

How much money do these hospitals take from the Biden administration, do you know? I don’t know for sure, but I know Houston Methodist Hospital has $13 billion in assets—that was a couple of years ago, probably more now. They have locations all over Houston, and they don’t pay property taxes because they’re a nonprofit. They don’t pay any property taxes? Nope. I do think we should get rid of nonprofit status, period. Yes. I don’t understand—I’ve met almost no nonprofit that I think is good. That needs to be reformed. We could probably close the deficit just by having these people pay the taxes the rest of us pay. Wow, that’s just so shocking.

Was there any hospital in Houston, where you live, that was willing to be reasonable or wasn’t taking orders? Yes, there was. Good. Dr. Joe Varon, a pulmonologist and critical care doctor—he’s now the head of the Independent Medical Alliance. He and I would have patients calling us from all over the country saying, “Help, get me out of this hospital.” He would accept transfers from all over—people would be life-flighted from an ICU in Maine down to Houston. He would care for them. This hospital, UMMC, allowed him to use ivermectin. There was a whole protocol called the MATH+ Protocol, started by FLCCC, which is now the Independent Medical Alliance. It included high-dose steroids, high-dose ivermectin, high-dose vitamin C, breathing treatments—all these very basic, not dangerous things that weren’t being done. He saved a lot of lives. He worked crazy hours—I think over two and a half years straight without a break. I was fortunate to have him as an ally.

—

### How Effective Is Ivermectin?

You’re clearly a data person. Do we have the final outcome? How did those patients do versus patients who were intubated in some Biden-controlled hospital? There’s a great website that compiles all the ivermectin data by itself—105 studies showing its efficacy. It varied depending on the patient, as it should—you wouldn’t always just use ivermectin. In my more severe patients, I’d use a combination of ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, and azithromycin. During that second week, I’d do higher-dose steroids if necessary, along with breathing treatments. It’s hard to isolate and say, “Okay, it’s just ivermectin.” But when you look at this compilation of studies, even in the late stages, ivermectin could decrease mortality by 40%. It’s most effective if you take it as prevention—people taking it twice a week do the best, followed by those who start on day one, two, or three.

So, we know that? Well, it depends on who you ask, but yes, there’s plenty of data supporting it. Why isn’t that the official CDC protocol for COVID? It would help myself and other doctors—I’m not the only one going through this with a medical board. If they could make it a countermeasure, it’s protected under the PREP Act, and all these issues with medical boards would essentially go away. Is there anybody with counter data showing that people taking ivermectin die more? I wouldn’t say that—they’d say it doesn’t work or it’s not effective. The establishment studies in big journals didn’t give ivermectin soon enough, used too low a dose, or were sponsored by someone with a financial interest in seeing it fail. There are studies countering it, but there’s an abundance of data showing it works and is super safe.

I was a little nervous before I started using it because of all the media saying it’s “only for horses.” So I dug into it. I looked at the study Merck submitted to the FDA—it’s on their website, anybody can find it—and you get toxicity data. There’s something called the LD50, the lethal dose 50, a benchmark to gauge how toxic a medication is. The higher the number, the lower the toxicity. In COVID, we were using higher doses of ivermectin than for parasites, so I wanted to make sure these higher doses were okay. The LD50 for ivermectin is anywhere from 11 to 82 times what we’re giving for COVID—we’re far under that threshold. I did a literature search for accidental or intentional overdoses from ivermectin and couldn’t find anything. I checked recently, and there was one muddy study showing some issues, but if you look at Tylenol, there are thousands of papers showing toxicity. I know someone with advanced liver disease from it. Really? Yeah, thousands of people die every year from it. Propofol, used every day in hospitals—if you screw that up by a tiny bit, you’re dead. Killed Michael Jackson, right? Hospitals work with incredibly dangerous drugs every day.

What are the side effects of ivermectin? I tell people I have a harder time with antibiotics in terms of side effects. If I’m going to get a call back in my office, it’s usually about an antibiotic problem, not ivermectin. You can get some GI issues—diarrhea—and blurry vision, but the blurry vision goes away when you stop taking it. It’s not like, “Oh, I can’t read”—more like, “Something’s a little off.” That’s it? That’s it. So, what you’re saying without saying it is there’s no compelling medical reason to call the cops if your nurse shows up with ivermectin? Exactly. That’s purely political, right? How did your profession get so politicized? It’s awful. Did you know that before all this? No. I remember when Methodist came after me very vocally, I had a press conference outside my office saying, “I’m not putting up with this—politics has no business in healthcare.” At the time, I really believed it. I wasn’t political at all prior to this. Really? I shied away from it—I didn’t like it, thought it was too divisive. You’re in—here I am now.

I think that’s wonderful and very American. You have children—that’s a sweet kind of attitude. That’s how you should feel. I married someone who feels that way: “I don’t like people arguing—let’s focus on the important things.” I’m not making fun of you at all—I love that. But now I feel like there’s no other choice, right? You have to get involved. Were you aware that medicine was so politicized before this started? Had you noticed it at all? No. It’s interesting—I looked at the data for Texas because Texas has been infiltrated by people from all over the country. I’m aware—33 percent. It’s going to be California-style. Yeah, it is. If you look at healthcare professionals and what they donated to political parties, 10 years ago, they primarily donated to Republicans; now they primarily donate to Democrats. The whole profession has shifted. I have a theory for why, but you’re the doctor—what do you think the cause of that is?

I think medicine in general—the corporate practice of medicine—has become centralized. Only 1% of doctors are not employed—I’m one of those. Not employed? Like, 77% of doctors are employed by a hospital, 20% by private equity or an insurance company, 2% by the government, and only 1% are like myself. So your choices are corporate overlords, private equity, insurance companies, or the government? Right. And you’re in the 1% that has your own business? Maybe that’s the answer right there. I think it is. Doctors need to regain their power—they’ve lost all their power. They have no power—they’re just worker bees getting ordered around.

When I got out of residency, I worked in a traditional practice—ear, nose, and throat, and sleep medicine. It was small, but it was easy. But I was always bothered by the stranglehold insurance companies had over my ability to treat patients. One easy example: as an ENT, we do an endoscopic exam of the nose—it takes an extra 10 minutes, not a big deal. Doesn’t sound fun for the patient, though. It’s really not bad—you numb it up first with spray, no shots. But if I did that and marked the code on the receipt, the patient might get a gigantic bill—like $400—for this simple procedure, which is pretty essential for an ENT. It’s what makes us different from a primary care doctor—we can look in there. It always stressed me out, thinking, “I’m going to do this, and is the patient going to get some big bill?” I hated it. So when I took time off—I had four boys in five years, and it was chaotic—I wasn’t sure I’d go back to medicine. I started with, “I’m just going to take a year off,” and that led to seven years off. As they got older, it kept nagging at me. I decided to go back, but on my own terms.

I call myself “third-party free”—I don’t contract with insurance companies, hospitals, or the government. The only people I work for are my patients. They just give you a credit card when they come in? Yes, and they can file a claim with their insurance company. It’s very transparent—everybody knows how much everything costs. So many people have high-deductible insurance now—they’re basically cash patients unless something catastrophic happens. If you go to a traditional doctor’s practice, half the time they don’t even know what to charge a cash patient because they’re so entrenched with the insurance industry. But there’s a growing movement of doctors like myself. I’m a specialist, so it’s a little unusual, but there’s something called direct primary care—affordable concierge care. You’re paying cash, but the cost is like a gym membership—not super high. You get more access to your doctor, more time, probably better quality. They’re not always like-minded on COVID—that’s a litmus test for me with doctors—but it’s a better way of doing it. You save your insurance for catastrophic care, like we do for our cars. Use your HSA—Health Savings Account—if you can get one. The government could expand those and make them more available, because right now it’s limited based on your employer. If you pay out of pocket for basics, you’re likely to have a better experience. It also frees the doctor to think independently and on behalf of patients.

Why didn’t you get the COVID shot? In my mind, I thought, “Okay, I don’t think this thing’s going to work, but I didn’t think it would hurt people.” I just didn’t think it would work. Why? Because of the speed—I thought, “How are they going to get this together so quickly that it’s going to work?” I also looked at the study and how they conducted it, and I didn’t like it. The test subjects weren’t routinely tested—they were only tested if the doctor felt they needed to be, which seemed too muddy to me. I had hesitation about that. Then I had this looming deadline because I had privileges at Houston Methodist, and you had to sign an attestation saying you either got the shot or intended to get it. So I woke up on a Saturday morning and thought, “I’ll just do it—let’s get it over with.” I went to a grocery store and stood in line. Where everybody should get their medical care, right? Go to the grocery store! The line was long, I got impatient, and I thought, “I’m going to leave—I’ll come back another time.” And I never went back. Why didn’t I go back? Yeah, I mean, it’s a big deal—you’ve got privileges at this hospital, you treat patients, it’s part of your business, you’re getting paid, you’re a doctor. You kind of have to get the shot—we’re all on board, everyone’s doing this. They were really mad at doctors and nurses who didn’t take it because it’s such a statement.

Here’s how I justified it in my mind: I never stepped foot in that hospital. I had privileges there just for emergencies. It wasn’t like, “Okay, I get COVID because I didn’t get the shot and then I’m infecting everybody in the hospital.” I wasn’t there. I also knew early treatment worked, so I knew the shot wasn’t necessary.

—

### The Health of Dr. Bowden’s Patients Compared to Others

There was so much pressure on everybody, particularly physicians, to do it. If you didn’t, it was a big hassle—you knew it would be. The tide was moving briskly in one direction, and you decided to swim against it. That’s more than a casual decision—it’s serious. I’m trying to get to the heart of why you made it. You’re clearly a thoughtful person, a doctor—you don’t just do random things. Was it instinct? I think it was more instinct. Everything was so busy during that time—I couldn’t think straight. We were slammed. I remember thinking, “I’m just going to get this over with and knock it off my list.” When it didn’t happen, I thought, “This is a sign—I’m not going back.” Maybe it was providence.

That decision changed your life, putting you on the other side from everyone else. How did your patients do? I used to give my cell phone to everybody, especially the sick ones. Everybody who got early treatment survived. I even had some really sick people come in during the second or third week—when the inflammatory cascade sets in and people get really sick. I had a man come in with oxygen saturation in the 60s. He wasn’t a healthy guy—history of a heart attack, throat cancer, a veteran. He basically said, “I’m not going to the hospital.” Normally, if somebody walked into my office like that, I’d call an ambulance. But I had to allow him to potentially die in my office, which was scary. He wasn’t the only one—I had a handful like that. He sounds like he’s on the brink. Yeah, he was bad. But I had nurses who could do IVs. We gave him high-dose steroids through an IV, antibiotics, breathing treatments, high-dose IV vitamin C, and high-dose ivermectin. We brought him in every day as an outpatient because I didn’t have a hospital bed in my office. He survived—and I had a lot like that. It was very gratifying.

I learned a lot. Just because somebody’s oxygen saturation is low doesn’t mean they need to be immediately put on a ventilator—that was the dogma we came into the pandemic with. I think that dogma has changed. For normal people, there’s a sense now of “stay away from ventilators.” I can see why doctors did it initially—if somebody’s struggling to breathe, that’s a scary, distressing feeling for a patient when you can’t get enough oxygen. It’s horrible. But what I don’t understand is why they didn’t do more to keep them off the ventilator. It’s bizarre to me. They gave them steroids, but very small doses. Why didn’t they throw the kitchen sink at these people? They got stuck in these protocols and basically allowed people to die.

We’re always looking for cool companies that make products to make you feel better—that’s how we ran into Bond Charge. Bond Charge offers a wide range of products that improve your physical condition, help you sleep better, perform better, and center your mind—recover faster, maintain energy, etc. They make blue light glasses, red light therapy, and more to address the trials of modern life effortlessly and naturally. One thing they make is a sleek infrared sauna blanket—it’s got a similar effect to a Finnish sauna but without the intense heat. It’s an easy, comfortable 30-minute session—you can relax with your family, talk, read—and it leaves you feeling refreshed and slightly euphoric, in a healthy way. It’s a great addition to your wellness routine—you might even drop a few pounds. Bond Charge ships worldwide, offers free shipping, and allows easy returns and exchanges. Go to bondcharge.com/tucker and use the coupon code TUCKER to save 15%.

You said he didn’t want to go to the hospital. I live in a tiny world, like we all do, but I don’t know anybody in my world who wants to go to the hospital. I know a lot of people who’ve resolved, “I’m never going to the hospital.” Very sick people saying, “I’m not going.” What do you think of that attitude? I’ve been in the hospital seven times—childbirth, and once as a patient when I was really sick with pneumonia and sepsis from the flu. I’d gotten a flu shot, by the way. I’m very grateful to the people who helped me. But now, like you said, everybody is terrified to go to the hospital. It used to be the safe place—where you go to save your life. Now people are terrified. Our current administration needs to address this—if they don’t, it’s a big problem because the trust has been destroyed. Do you see that with your patients? Oh yeah. The most common question I get is, “Where should I go if I need to go to the hospital?” I don’t have a great answer. Your best bet is to keep yourself healthy—manage your diet, stress, sleep, exercise, get enough sun, and stay out of the hospital. Keeping your weight under control is probably number one. Really? Because if you gain weight, you’re more susceptible to infection, heart disease, and cancer—the big three. And you have to buy new clothes, which is unacceptable. Right—you don’t want to buy new clothes!

I did carnivore for six months and had to buy a whole new wardrobe. I’m speaking as a man—you can’t buy new clothes? No, it’s against the rules. That’s what keeps me in line. But it worked that well? I weigh now what I weighed in high school—I never thought I’d get to that point. I did it for six months—it’s not for everybody, but it’s safer than Ozempic or Mounjaro. It’s simple—you eliminate all carbohydrates and just eat meat. You snack on bacon—it’s crazy—and you’re shedding pounds. It’s boring but simple—you don’t count calories, you don’t get hungry. You do go through sugar withdrawal—sugar’s very addictive. What do you think of fasting? I tried intermittent fasting—it didn’t work for me. I’ve heard it’s not as effective for women. I worry it slows down metabolism, but I’ve never tried it. I know people swear by it.

You don’t have a good answer on the hospital question, I notice. Oh, how to fix that? No, like what do you do if you get sick? Your answer was “don’t get sick.” Well, if you have to go to the hospital, be prepared—have somebody with you. There’s a patient bill of rights—you have rights in the hospital. Make sure you know those rights. I haven’t noticed them. Yeah, they don’t advertise them. Why do doctors patronize patients? Oh yeah, that’s a bit—treating them like children? When I started 23 years ago, patients didn’t have a lot of access to information—not like now. We were in charge because we had the information—unless they had textbooks, they didn’t have it; there wasn’t online info. Now patients are well-informed. Every conversation I have with a patient, I know they’ve been researching and have a lot of information at their disposal. A lot of doctors don’t like that. I embrace it—I learn from my patients. If a patient finds something, I’ll dig into it because I don’t have time to dig into everything. You see weird things, and I like it. But doctors don’t like it—it’s a power thing and an ego thing, mostly.

—

### Does the COVID Shot Need to Be Pulled From the Market?

That was my suspicion. So what did you end up thinking of the COVID shot? It’s horrible—it needs to be pulled off the market. It should have been pulled a long time ago. I looked at my patients in the two years following the rollout—7% of my new patients were coming to see me for severe injuries. I’ve never seen anything like it with any other product on the market. If this were an antibiotic and you were seeing all these side effects, it would have been yanked off a long time ago. Normally, the FDA will put a black box warning on a drug if there have been five deaths; they’ll pull it off the market if there have been 50. According to VAERS—the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, which is vastly under-reported, and I’ve seen this firsthand—there have been 38,000 deaths from these COVID shots. Under normal circumstances, the FDA would have pulled it. Instead, they’ve doubled down—they’ve put the shots on the childhood vaccine schedule. All babies are expected to get three COVID shots by the time they’re nine months old. The shots are still under EUA status for this age group—so under 12, they’re not even fully approved by the FDA, yet they’re on the vaccine schedule. According to the CDC, 9 million American children have gotten the latest version of these COVID shots. Actually? Yes, still—9 million, 12%.

—

### They’re Giving Babies the COVID Shot

The concern I have with these kids—so we know myocarditis… This is going on right now? Yes. I think we voted against this. I don’t know—you’re very diplomatic. I’m stunned to learn this is happening right now. Could this be shut down? It should have been shut down a long time ago. Nine million babies have had COVID shots? Well, children—minors. Is it compulsory? It’s still compulsory in some states, some businesses—not in Texas. Texas passed a law outlawing mandates for COVID shots, but I reached out to people on Twitter yesterday, and they said it’s still required for jobs, nursing programs, even transplants—“We’re going to let you die unless you get this shot.” How could we fix that? The shots need to be pulled off the market immediately. Who could do that? The FDA—Marty Makary could do that. Then we need accountability—we can’t sweep this under the rug because we’ll never restore trust. If nothing happens, it’s a festering wound, and the trust will never come back. Are there any indications this is coming soon? I’m not privy to government conversations—you probably follow this as closely as anybody. There’s so much going on—multiple wars, the economy—a lot to distract from this question. But I think it’s really important, and you’re focused on it. Have you seen any sign that these products, which, according to VAERS, have killed 38,000 people, are going to be pulled off the market? I haven’t. It seems HHS’s focus has shifted to food quality and improving that. I haven’t heard a word about COVID or the shots—not that I’ve missed something, but that’s what I’m reading.

Food is like smoking—I love bad food and smoking. I don’t smoke anymore, but I loved it, and I hate myself for it, but it’s true. That’s why people do it—because they love it. I love pizza. I don’t think I’ve ever smoked a cigarette or eaten a slice of pizza without knowing it was bad for me. It’s common sense. I do think we shouldn’t allow food stamps or SNAP to be used for Coca-Cola—obviously. There are changes you can make, but you know when you’re eating garbage—that’s why we call it garbage. I’m 55—they called it that in 1975: “Ooh, junk food.” You know what junk food is—it’s the delicious stuff. I think eating right is important, and I try—not going to eat any freaking vegetables, though. But the COVID shot seems like an imminent threat. Yes. My concern with giving it to babies—myocarditis. You’re positive that’s happening? Oh yeah, definitely—you can find it on the CDC site. I trust you—it’s freaking me out; I didn’t know that. That’s why we can’t let this go away.

Babies—so myocarditis. We know there’s an increased risk in teenage boys who take these shots. We don’t know the risk for nonverbal babies because the symptom is chest pain. A baby could be getting myocarditis, and we’d have no idea. Myocarditis can leave a scar on the heart, and years later, the heart is permanently damaged—you’re playing lacrosse and you drop. That’s my big concern—these babies could be getting myocarditis, and we have no idea.

—

### The Link Between Cancer and COVID

Do you believe these shots are responsible for permanent immune system damage? What I’ve been looking at is spike protein antibody levels—traditionally called titers. With the hepatitis B vaccine, you can look at titers to see if you have protection—we do that in hospitals to ensure staff won’t get hepatitis B if stuck by a needle. I started looking at spike protein antibody levels—it’s alarming. I can tell immediately if somebody had the shot. In the vaccinated, these levels average 13,000; in the unvaccinated, it’s 1,000—a huge discrepancy. This is years after the shot—most of these people have had two or three, none more than that, and none have been sick with COVID recently. It’s very alarming—it suggests the spike protein is still active and possibly replicating in the body. The mRNA in these shots isn’t natural—it’s synthetic, made to avoid degradation, designed to stay in the body. Seeing these levels concerns me—we have an issue with ongoing spike protein.

What are the consequences of that? I think cancer is a big concern, along with immune dysfunction. How would that affect cancer? The spike protein is oncogenic—Dr. Ryan Cole has talked about that. Viruses can be oncogenic, and it appears the mRNA shots have SV40 in them, an oncogenic virus. There’s something called frame-shifting—when the mRNA is integrating, little mistakes can produce new proteins. We don’t know what they are, but they could cause autoimmune disease and possibly cancer. There are a lot of unknowns. We need a test to detect spike protein—all we have now is an antibody test. We need an antidote. I’m struggling because I have all these injured people—I usually start with ivermectin, which helps; it binds to spike protein and is anti-inflammatory. But we’re limited—we need the NIH to dig into this and help these injured patients. They’re challenging, and we’re experimenting because we don’t know. They’re not helping? I’ve tried a lot of things—ivermectin works best, but it’s slow-going. I put people on it for a long time before saying it’s not going to work. We need the NIH to step up.

Time for another True Life Alp story. I got a call from a friend yesterday—true story—who said his girlfriend broke up with him over Alp. He wouldn’t stop. I thought, “That’s kind of sad.” He said, “No, it’s not—imagine if I’d married her. Now I know I was saved.” The next day, he’s driving twice the speed limit through a major American city, pulled over by a cop in a speed trap. The cop takes his license and registration, runs it, comes back, looks in the window, and sees a tin of Alp on the dashboard. Pauses, stunned, and says, “You use Alp?” “Yeah, I do,” says my friend. “So do I,” says the cop. “We all do.” He looks at my friend thoughtfully and says, “Drive safely, sir,” hands back his license, and no ticket. In two days, he’s saved from a tragic marriage and a speeding ticket—all true. It’s more than a name. In a nation of 350 million people, we’re guessing there are 350 million Alp stories. Email us yours—we want to know and read it on the air. Email tellall@alppouch.com.

—

### The Legal Protection of Vaccine Developers

One of our primary platforms for distribution is YouTube, which has been great—less censorship than any television job I’ve had. We’re grateful to YouTube—I never thought I’d say that. But the one area where we get censored is when we talk about the COVID shot, which I think is interesting. This will probably be censored on YouTube, but I have to ask you—you’re a clinical physician treating thousands of people. Tell us about the injuries you’re seeing.

I don’t get the sudden collapse—myocarditis, stroke—because I’m outpatient. The soccer players, right. I see varied things—I’ve seen strange rashes that don’t go away with steroids or antihistamines. Like bumpy, red, splotchy rashes? I had this poor 15-year-old kid—it was all over his face and body. He responded so well to ivermectin—that was a great case. Are you sure that was vax-related? Yeah—it came on right after the COVID shots, and he had no prior history. I see POTS—postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome—where blood pressure drops or spikes suddenly, or your pulse gets erratic, with no clear trigger. That’s been big with COVID patients—very difficult to fix. I’ve seen a lot of neurological issues. What does POTS stand for? Postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome. I don’t understand a single word of that—what are its effects? You feel faint—standing there, your blood pressure drops, or your pulse spikes, and you feel like you’re having a panic attack. Symptomatic changes in blood pressure with no trigger? That sounds dangerous. Yeah, it’s hard to treat.

I’ve seen neurological tremors. Oh, come on. Yeah—whole-body tremors. I saw a patient a little older than me, a CEO of a company. He gave me his business card and said, “Hi, I’m so-and-so,” then gave me another card and said, “This is the biggest mistake I’ve ever made in my life”—his vaccine card. Very difficult to treat—we’ve gotten a little improvement, but a lot of fatigue. Hand tremors? Whole body. Even when he sleeps? It affects every part of your life. A lot of these patients say they feel burning, pins and needles, when they sleep—typical with neuropathy. That sounds like a life destroyer. Yeah, it’s bad. These aren’t conditions where you give them an antibiotic and they’re better in a week—they’re chronic.

The government’s not helping. Brianne Dressen of React 19—she started an organization to help those injured by COVID shots—was involved in the AstraZeneca trial. She volunteered as a guinea pig and got injured. The government just said they’re not going to help her—no financial reimbursement, maybe a week or two ago. I don’t understand—we didn’t vote for this. In her case, she was part of the clinical trials, but everybody else—not including you and me—took it because we were subject to the biggest propaganda campaign in American history, forced by the government. Why aren’t the companies paying these people? They have no liability risk with these products. The PREP Act further protects them—it doesn’t expire until 2029. Anything designated as a countermeasure is protected—anything that happens in hospitals, from these shots, all shielded from liability.

There’s one monumental lawsuit that could change that. Brooke Jackson, a whistleblower for Pfizer, was involved in the research at clinical trial sites as a manager. She saw all sorts of issues with how they conducted the trial, brought it to the company’s and FDA’s attention, and was fired. She’s been in a gigantic legal battle against Pfizer for four years now. Unfortunately, under Biden, the DOJ stepped in and said, “No, you can’t sue Pfizer.” You can’t sue Pfizer? The DOJ stuck up for Pfizer—which isn’t usually how that works. I’m surprised they didn’t arrest her for complaining. This has got to be making you pretty radical. It doesn’t seem radical to me—it seems like common sense. You don’t seem like a radical person, but this makes me feel radical. Neurological symptoms—you’re pretty convinced those are from the shots? You look at their past history—do they have issues? Were they otherwise healthy? When did these things start? The timeline—and they typically go to other doctors, get a million-dollar workup, and the doctors are baffled. They put them on psychiatric medications—not really. Oh yeah—I saw one patient on a sleeping pill, a benzodiazepine, and an SSRI antidepressant.

Why do we have so many mass shooters in this country? I don’t know—it’s baffling. That’s shocking. In American culture, they used to make fun of 19th-century medical cures for hysteria—Victorian doctors saying, “Here’s a giant vibrator,” or “It’s all in your head, honey, calm down.” I was sympathetic to that—don’t just dismiss people. But that’s what you’re describing. They don’t get reported to VAERS—I’ve had to report every patient who came to me for an injury, even though they’d seen multiple other doctors. I know it’s under-reported. I love the idea of VAERS—I remember reading the VAERS report in 2021 when I worked in television, going on air and reading it: “Here’s what’s been reported from this compound people are being forced to take.” I got attacked by The Atlantic and everybody—“No, this is a federal reporting system!” That was the last I heard of VAERS—no one mentions it. What’s the point of having it if it’s irrelevant? It’s not subtle—if you look at it, you don’t need a statistics degree to understand what’s going on. Nothing, then whoosh—especially since it was in place during the rollout of other vaccines going way back—measles, rubella, then COVID! I don’t have a degree, and I could understand that. Do federal officials ever reference VAERS? Not to my knowledge—I could have missed it, but no. The idea seems to be, “People are complaining again—they need to shut up”? Apparently—it’s one more thing swept under the rug.

—

### Why Is There So Much Secrecy Around COVID Data?

You’ve told a much sadder story than I expected to hear. Are you concerned that because the technology in these shots was brand new—never deployed before at scale, anyway—and the trials were, I think it’s fair to say, a joke, there are consequences that haven’t manifested yet? Yeah, it’s hard to get up-to-date cancer numbers, but I’m hearing all sorts of things. Why is it hard to get up-to-date cancer numbers? Good question—we’re in the middle of a cancer moonshot, doctor! Some people probably have access to that data, but publicly, it’s hard. I have to rely on friends at MD Anderson—they’ve said they’ve never seen anything like it: young people coming in with very advanced tumors. That’s what we have to worry about now.

You’ve made reference five times to numbers and the difficulty in getting them. I understand why patient identities are shielded by federal law—that seems reasonable for privacy. But just the fact that someone has a disease, with no identifying markers—why isn’t that public information? Why is there so much secrecy around medical data? Yeah, the data itself—there could be an agenda behind it, or it could just be total bureaucratic inefficiency. It’s hard to say. It’d be nice if we could have more data. Isn’t that essential to science? Yeah, it is—but it’s complicated to get it all out there. Transparency would be great. Even aside from cancer numbers—with COVID, all these hospitals had so much data and didn’t share it. It’d be nice to see Houston Methodist share their data since they led the way with mandates—how successful was that for their employees and patients? Can a lawsuit force that? I sued them to get that data. Man, you are ferocious! But I lost—on what grounds? I don’t know, political grounds, I think. I sued to get their financial data—as a nonprofit, they’re supposed to provide it if someone from the public wants to know, in exchange for not paying property taxes. But there was some technicality—I don’t really understand why we lost, but we did. We appealed and lost on appeal.

—

### Will Medicine Get Better Because of This?

COVID—clearly there’s been no reckoning. You’ve not been recognized for your bravery and prescience—you called it, you should be rewarded, but you haven’t been and likely never will be. The shots are still being given to babies—that’s my takeaway from this conversation. There’s no effort to pull this stuff from the market, 38,000 deaths later. There’s no recourse for the average person—you can’t afford lawyers, you can’t sue the companies making these products, and you can’t sue the government officials who forced you to take them. Everything about it is pure Orwell. That’s the downside—it’s crushing to hear this from you; I didn’t expect it. What are the upsides? People are more aware—do you see medicine in the United States getting better now that people who are paying attention know what’s up? I think people are feeling more empowered, which is how it should be. They’re not listening to the government for healthcare decisions anymore—they’ve learned from that mistake. I haven’t lost all hope. I’m grateful—there was a time I couldn’t even—I was banned from Twitter. I don’t know if you were, but free speech is coming back. They couldn’t ban me from Twitter, so they didn’t. Yeah—but they could ban much more informed people. How am I a threat? I’m just a random talk show host with an opinion. The people they want to ban are physicians treating thousands of COVID patients, telling the informed truth—you’re the threat, not me.

I’m grateful to you for having me on here—this is old news to most people. We just need to keep speaking out, keep pounding away at this, even though there’s no pandemic anymore. Indications suggest the consequences are still rippling. I don’t want to overstate anything, but why isn’t there an organized effort to find out if cancer rates are spiking? We eliminated cigarette smoking, supposedly the main driver of cancer—I was there for that, they beat me into quitting, which is fine, smoking’s bad, I got it. But cancer went up. At some point, I’d say, “You told me this, the opposite happened—let’s talk about why.” Not attacking you, but I demand an answer. How hard is it to get a statistician at NIH or HHS to tell me what’s happening with cancer rates, especially pediatric cancer rates? That’s crazy town. The money is there for treatment, not the cause. It’s financially driven—if you’re in it to make money, you go after treatment, not the cause. That doesn’t make sense—how can you recommend treatment without knowing its effect? You can’t make a wise decision without all the facts, as we say.

I’m very cynical about medical care now. Would you have gone into this if you’d known? It’s been difficult, but impactful. In some ways, I’m glad it happened—it’s been educational. I have hope it will change—it may take another generation, but COVID should be the wake-up call. The seeds were there before COVID, but it brought it all out there. Hopefully, we can learn from it and change course.

You got a flu shot and ended up in the hospital with pneumonia and sepsis—I’m certain not to laugh at your illness, but you got a flu shot! I’ve never had one because I’m lazy, but you clearly believed in it—you’re a doctor, you wouldn’t have gotten it unless you thought it was efficacious. Has what you’ve seen over the past five years changed your view of other vaccine courses? Yeah—I made a lot of assumptions about vaccines. It was the gospel according to vaccines in training—no questioning, just accepted fact: they’re safe and effective. COVID made me realize, “Hold on, let’s see how they were tested.” They haven’t been tested like other products on the market—no placebo-controlled trials like other drugs, and they have liability protection. The companies aren’t motivated—there’s no repercussion if something goes wrong, no reason to spend money ensuring safety. Now I have questions about all of them. I’m not seeing the carnage from the flu shot that I’ve seen with the COVID shot—there’s a different degree of danger—but it does make me question them all. The flu shot has never been shown to decrease hospitalization or death; it can make people more susceptible to other viruses. I had a child badly injured by the flu vaccine—that was one of the drivers for me. When it happened almost 20 years ago, I had no idea vaccines could hurt anybody—it never crossed my mind. I thought they were a miracle of science—I was proud we developed the polio vaccine, which I’m not against. But I didn’t know they had potential downsides.

—

### How to Fix the Healthcare Industry

It sounds like you’re not against vaccines, but the system around them doesn’t put patient safety first. How would you change that? Remove their liability protection, require them to go through the process any other product does—not complicated. That’s the first thing you’d do—why isn’t that happening? Apparently, in 1986, when Reagan put the act in place, two companies almost got decimated financially because of lawsuits—that should have been a warning sign. I hate lawyers—I’ve never sued anybody, don’t think I ever will, hate them as much as doctors, in that range. I’m against lawsuits too—some tort awards are insane. But if someone keeps getting sued for the same thing—like if I got eight sexual harassment suits—maybe I’m groping people, right? Is that fair? Yeah, I’m on board with that as an empiricist.

Last question: What are you going to do now that this is all over? How are you, as a formerly politically disengaged person, spending your time? I try to get away from it all as much as I can—that’s what I’d advise anybody: find a hobby that gets you away and get outside as much as possible. I’m probably going to slow down my practice a bit to give myself breathing room—I still have four boys in high school. But I’ll continue to speak out. I may do a podcast—I don’t know what I’m going to do, but the fight’s not over.

Thank you, doctor—I really appreciate it. That was great.

—

This version maintains the original content while improving readability with proper paragraph breaks, punctuation, and dialogue formatting. Let me know if you’d like further adjustments!